coed weekend sleepovers

[l4linda]

My husband's coworkers plan a couple of annual weekend trips but don't invite spouses. I'm a newlywed, but even if I'd been married for years, I don't think I'd ever be comfortable with this. I do trust him, and the relationships are platonic, but I still think it's inappropriate and unusual. From what I understand, other spouses aren't comfortable with these events either. I think it's rude and inconsiderate to invite married opposite- coworkers to a social overnight out- of-town event without their spouses. My discomfort with these situations has caused us stress and conflict. He seems to not really understand why these scenarios would trouble me, seems hurt and offended, and says I don't trust him. How would he feel if it was me going off with my male co-workers without their wives? I'm really baffled how he doesn't understand how I feel about this - I think there are very few people who would be comfortable in similar circumstances.

Please respond - I'm really interested in hearing other opinions about this. To me this is a no-brainer, and I find it very surprising that he would expect and assume I (or any spouse for that matter,) would be ok with these arrangements. But maybe I'm wrong. Guys - how would you feel it was your wife or girlfriend? Women - would you be comfortable if it was your husband? Am I too old-fashioned? Am I overreacting?

[Rich]

L4Linda-

IMO it basically comes down to trust and confidence. I'm sure that most spouses would feel somewhat threatend by coed overnight events when they're not invited.

It's also true that most people in relationships lack total trust and confidence in each other. If you had total trust and confidence in your husband that he loves you and you only, would you be nervous? If you had total confidence in his faithfulness, would you be nervous.

If the answers are yes, then there really shouldn't be a problem with him going away. After all, you're not joined at the hip. If the answers are no, then IMO you have some issues in your marriage that should be looked at. Like, why isn't there total confidence. Why don't you totally trust each other? There must be things that both of you aren't doing to give that trust and confidence. That's what needs to be worked on.

Quite honestly, if your husband wanted to cheat with a co-worker he'd be doing it already and wouldn't wait for these types of trips. I can understand you believing that the temptation is greater on these trips, but has there been past incidences where people have cheated on their spouses on these trips? If not, then why create issues. Again, if he was going to cheat, he'd be doing it already.

On the flip side, your husband feels the need to go away and spend some time away from you. I'd ask why that is (in a nice way). I know that it's good to get away sometimes, but if I know that my wife is bothered by something, then I wouldn't do it. My wife's feelings are more important than my co-workers.

Your husband might also feel that he "has" to go on this trip to help him keep his job, if his bosses are going. There's a fine line.

Bottom line is that if you have total trust and confidence in your husband, then let him go without busting his chops. If you don't have it, then let him go but work on the trust and confidence issues when he gets back.

You should use his time away to do things with your girlfriends and do your own get away. Time away also make the heart grow fonder. Plus, if your husband knows that you have plans as well, you can be rest assured that he'll be thinking of you and what you might be doing while he's gone.

Good luck

Rich

[l4linda]

Rich,
You give good, thought-provoking advice. I've noticed your posts on other threads. I've posted this question at a few other sites, and asked a lot of my friends and family their thoughts too. The responses were 100% in agreement, which actually did surprise me a bit (with the exception of yours, that is!) I think trust, like respect, is earned, and is not necessarily unconditional, but is based on knowledge of and confidence in the other's love, faithfulness, and other values such as honesty, etc. I was told about both these trips on our honeymoon, and they were already planned, flight arrangements made, before I learned about it. At the end of the honeymoon his coworkers played a terrifying practical joke on us, and some other things have happened which, while not shaking my trust in my husband, have left me to question the common sense and judgement of his coworkers people. I feel these overnight, out of town social events are inappropriate and spouses should all be invited, not some invited and some excluded. This whole scenario seems rude, inappropriate, and demonstrates a lack of good judgement and common sense, not to mention poor etiquette. Added to that is the fact that the plans were made without us having the opportunity to discuss first. The first trip was on sweetest day weekend, two weeks after we got back from our honeymoon. Neither of the trips were company sponsored, they were strictly social, and by his admission not in any way crucial to his job, just for fun and socializing - drinking, partying, golfing, bonfires, etc., and his absence or presence would have had no impact on his career. Some spouses were invited, others weren't. I feel trust is something that is earned, and grows and is reinforced by behavior and attitude. I totally agree with you that if a spouse wants to cheat they're going to, and it doesn't take a trip like this to make it happen, and if they're not going to cheat a trip like this isn't going to make it happen. I also know that you can't control another's behavior. I still think this kind of trip is not good for relationship confidence-building, especially not in a brand-new marriage. Even if you love and trust someone, there are certain behaviors and incidents that can erode that trust and make a person doubt and question. It's not just up to the other who feels uncomfortable to trust the person wanting to engage in questionable behavior. It's also up to the one to behave in such a way that confidence and trust can grow and be reinforced. After reading others' opinions on this subject and talking to many other happily-married couples, I am comfortable that I'm not being crazy-jealous and that these kinds of trips would not be trust- or confidence-building for the great majority of marriages. Even if there's nothing going on, it "looks bad," and there are some things that just seem inappropriate for committed couples to participate in. This is one of them, especially in a brand-new marriage, and after hearing what a lot of people have to say about this subject, I feel much more confident in my viewpoint. Whether this would be acceptable to the majority of people is pretty much a no-brainer, and it's not just me being insecure - it's just not an appropriate scenario in the minds and values of most. Thanks again for your response.

[Rich]

Linda-

I don't think that in my post I took one side more over the other. I had also said that your husband should respect and honor your point of view. And that he should want to make YOU happy before that of his co-workers.

You say questionable behaviour about these trips. Would it be questionable behaviour if you were invited to go? Or would the behaviour be fine then?

You are correct about trust and that it's earned. I just disagree as to when it's earned. How long did you date your husband before you got married? Did he earn your trust during your dating period? As for trust being eroded...it shouldn't necessarily be general events that erode it. Has your husband done specific, unfaithful things to erode your trust in him? Or is he guilty by association and that he's a man? Or has he just not built up that trust in your eyes yet? IMO people shouldn't marry someone that they can't or don't trust. I feel that people should go into a marriage totally trusting the other person and not look to get that trust as the marriage goes along. If you don't go in totally trusting, that means that you're holding back. IMO a marriage deserves all that you have to give and not just a portion of it.

Also, FYI. When it comes to company functions and who is invited, usually it's non-spouse or all spouse invites. Of course I'm talking most major companies. Maybe it's different for smaller firms if your husband works for a smaller firm. I come from a corporate background and was involved in helping coordinating company events. Companies don't want to open themselves up to law suits by excluding some people. So, it's either all or none.

You mentioned that some spouses were invited to the event. That would tell me that it's open to ALL spouses and that your husband is making the decision to exclude you and that it's not the firm that's excluding you. You might want to follow up on that.

The bottom line is that you and your husband need to be on the same page in regards to functions and expectations. You have every right to feel uncomfortable with the event that you speak about.

Here are some words for you:

trust
confidence
security
freedom
respect
openness
thoughtfulness
honesty

These are some of my 33 ingredients for an awesome relationship. Seems like maybe you and your husband need to work on these as they might seem weak. On a scale of 1 - 3, how would you rate each of these in your relationship.

1= hardly any
2= some
3= a lot, perfect

From what you wrote it seems like you would have to answer with a 1 for trust, confidence, freedom and security towards your husband and marriage. And he would have to answer with a 1 on respect, openness, thoughtfulness and honesty because he's not providing any of that to you or your feelings.

You both should be trying to achieve 3's on all of those. IMO these are some core concepts that you and your husband should be working on to better your marriage because without these things then this event is just the tip of the iceberg and it will be other things that cause friction as well.

Work to repair these facets of your relationship and you're well on your way. Afterall, you want to deal with the root cause of things and not the symptoms. It's like sitting under a light that constantly gives you a headache. You can take an aspirin to get rid of the headache, but what you should do is to move your chair or to lower the light.

Same thing here.

Good luck,

Rich