When to trust a liar

[CTAnd14]

I got married at 19 years old to the love of my life. I had just finished my freshman year of college and was pregnant (with our now 3 year old son). I am a good mother, but being mommy & wife at 19 was hard. I had (and still have) alot of guilt issues and questions about my self worth and my marriage. My husband and I have been married for 3 years, and some of that time was tough. We didn't always get along. Since then, we have worked through it and are happy. However, during the tough time, he met a women at work and they became good friends (she is an attractive 21 year old, if that matters).

I dont believe they have ever sleep together, but she was someone for him to talk to when things were going tough. At first it didn't bother me, then they went out one night (in a group where her boyfriend was present) and he was gone until 5 in the morning. At this point, I told him their relationship made me uncomfortable and asked him to stop talking to her. About three months later, he recieved a phone call from her while we were together. I got upset and again asked him to stop talking to her. About two months later, I saw a text message on his phone from her (returning his call). At this point I got furious and extremely upset. We talked about there relationship for a long time and why it upset me, and I again asked him to stop talking to her. Then on Valentines day(about 3 months after the last incident), I saw the cell phone bill and noticed her number was on there several times. I asked him about it, and he admitted they were talking (infrequently). Each time I asked him to stop talking to her, he agreed to cut of communication with her. And inbetween discovers of the ongoing relationship, he would repeatedly tell me they weren't talking. Going to extreme measures to make up stories, and hide her number on his phone.

He says he still loves me. And is adament about not having any feelings for her (she is dating someone else). I love him very much, even when things are tough. He is the one I see myself with throughout life (the good and bad).

I am so confused. He seems to think that since he hasn't sleep with her, he hasn't done anything wrong (and that is how he says he has continually justified the lying and ongoing relationship to himself). I however feel as though he is not only in the wrong for continually lying, but also has emotionally cheating on me (by turning to her instead of me for companionship).

I know this is confusing, and I am rambling....but I am so confused and upset. How do I get my point across to him. How do I learn to trust him again? Should I even try?

[eightball61]

It could be a classic case of emotional cheating but as you mentioned she does have a boyfriend. If he truelly see how its hurting you then he would make an effort to compromise. By hiding the situation it only makes matters worse because he is lying to you and thats not what a marriage is for. The only way of stopping him though is if he wants to make the effort to stop.

You both may attend some marriage counseling if you are having that lack of communication but before that you just need to tell him how it is. Asking has done nothing to stop him. I am sure you would compromise more if he was open about the wholle thing but he isn't. Let him know the lies destroyed it and you are not putting up with it anymore. This isn't what a marriage is...

[MissCheivious]

I'm gonna agree with eightball61 and say it's defintely a case of emotional cheating. There's no doubt about that. I think that the lying part of cheating is actually worse than the actual (going through that situation right now so take my word :mad: ) so your hubby telling you that he'll stop calling but then calling anyway isn't good at all. Not to say he's slept with her but in all honesty, anything he needs to talk about, he should be talking about it with YOU. I'm not saying he shouldn't have friends, even friends that are female but there's a line and he's crossed that several times over. There's no need for him to lie to you, EVER. You know this. You two didn't take a vow to be untruthfull to each other and you're holding your end of the bargain up and so should he. The best thing I can tell you do is this. Let him hang himself. LOL It sounds extreme but I've been with ALOT of liars and being a former one myself (LOL), I know the best way to catch them and guilt trip the hell out of them. ;) When you catch him calling this girly again (and you will...sorry), don't say a word. Walk away and act like everything is cool. I know, sounds weird right? Step two: Before you're about to go to sleep, tell him the next time you find out he's talking to little Miss Good Conversation, you're going to call her and ask her why she's talking to your husband so much and why can't you too be involved in the conversation? This is an empty threat of course but bear with me. He'll freak, that's for sure. After that small little innocent comment, go to sleep. Don't elaborate. Let it drop. Either this will stop his much needed conversations with little Miss Good Conversation or it won't. If it doesn't, you've got bigger problems. This is a bit of trickery to get a man to stop doing something that he doesn't think he wants to do. Is it ethical? Nah...but is talking to someone on the phone secretly that isn't your wife? Nah.....Just bear in mind, tweak this formula to your husband's needs. If he freaks out or gets mad easily, play it by ear but the basic idea is to show him that it's not pissing you off when it is and his attempts to disrespect you are going to waste. That will either stop the disrepsectful behavior in its' tracks or speed up whatever he was going to do anyway. I'm sure some people might find this not truthful or a bit manipulative but I've found time and again that it works. I really hope your marriage works out. You sound like a great girl. Tell that hubby of yours to get his head out of his butt and appreciate his cool wife. :) Good luck to ya!

[CTAnd14]

Thanks for the advice, but unfortunately I already made a similar threat- and followed thru with it. When I found the text message, I wasn't sure it was from her (I had never bothered to memorize the number before), so when he wouldn't tell me who it was (he tried saying it was a guy friend), I threated to call them. I had recited the number improperly when I asked him about it...so he told me to go ahead (thinking I didn't know the number), so I took out a piece of paper I had recorded the number on and called. When I told her who I was, her reply was "I am sorry I don't know this number" & she hung up. I called back (not very happy at this point) and stated she may not know the number, but she sure as hell knows who I am. To which she said little. We talked about my husband and her relationship, she said they were just friends & she only calls his cell phone & never calls him at home (like that is supposed to help the situation!). But even after all that they have continued talking.

I am so not sure what to do. I really want to work thru this, but I know it is not going to stop....if not her, it will be someone else. And I am not sure I can live with that. Plus, he is not at all remorseful.....which is making me more upset daily. It feels like there is a brick on my heart/chest and I cannot swallow.

Thanks again, any comments help...I feel so alone that hearing someone elses thought on the subject is a great comfort.

[MissCheivious]

Wow. Well, I'm sorry you tried that and it didn't seem to work. You might be right. If he doesn't seem remorseful about it then he's not sorry he's doing it (obviously). I've never been married so in all honesty, I'm not sure how to handle this. I think the best thing you can do right now (if it's possible) is to perhaps take your child and go live elsewhere with say a family member or friend. Maybe he's going through a phase where he thinks the grass is greener. I don't know. Maybe if he knows you're not there for him to put up with this, he'll wake up. It could happen. I don't want to tell you that this seems hopeless because you're married to him and I think with a marriage, it's never easy to just walk away. Maybe even if you just tell him, "Look, until this talking crap with what's-her-name stops, I'm not going to be here", that might jolt him. Who knows? Most of the time, men have to figure out that the grass isn't greener and usually by that time, they've already done something big. It's really your call on this. Don't worry about being alone, you always have someone to talk to here. :)

[eightball61]

Now its turning into a game. If he wants to keep you then he has to make a choice. You have to state your demands because this is something that isn't going to go away. You have got the lies, dishonesty, and confusion and now it has to stop. You need to let him know whats going to happen. He needs to make a commitited choice and if he chooses you then I suggest getting a shared phone planned under your name so you can keep dabs on his calls.

[CTAnd14]

I did just that. I told him I couldn't stay in a marriage in which the relationship (and me) didn't come first. That he has pinned me against her and I cannot stay with him if he was going to put her (their relationship) before me. And that if he wants to be with someone else (or even just without me), that's fine we can get a divorce..but if he goes behind my back again he is ending not only our marriage, but our friendship.

I hope I didn't make his "secret relationship" with her seem like even more of a fun challenge now,but I don't think that is how it is. We shall see. I had to do something, and it just made sense to tell him the truth about how I was feeling and what would realistically happen if they happen again. Since the truth is really what I want from him.

[MissCheivious]

Just out of curiosity, how did he react? Hopefully he chose you over this secret relationship. I honestly don't think he's cheated on you physically right now but if he keeps talking to this woman, he might just be waiting for an excuse to do that which is cowardly but, that is what most people do. The only thing I can tell you is that you did the right thing by laying all your cards out on the table. It's his move now and at least you'll know where this is going. Good luck! :)

[eightball61]

Yeah I would like to know how he reacted to that.... You got out the last option though for him and lets prey he can stick to that. Its ok to be a friends but the way he approached it had to be brought down to this. He did this to himself and dont ever blame yourself if things fail. You made the last attempt to warn him to stop. IF he cared about you then he would find a way to compromise this around. Hang in there and we are here anytime.

[CTAnd14]

Well, he handled it well enough (considering). He kind of got affended I wouldn't just take him at his word, and kinda got upset because I gave him an "ultamatum" and got alittle distant (because he felt like I was putting restrictions on his life).

I told him I didn't think it was an ultamatum...just time for him to make a concious decision and to do that he needed to know what the outcome of his decision would be in terms of us. As far as the restrictions went, I told him I think he brought that on himself by handling their relationship in the way he did (and if he felt like he couldn't live with that restriction, then he knew what choose he had to make).

He started to answer and I told him to really think about it, because I knew he was a man of his word and wouldn't want to make a rash decision and regret it(he was saying he wanted to stay married, so if that is what.....when I interrupted him-I wanted him to mean it).

The next morning he said the same thing. 'It was a no brainer...he wants to be with me, and he would try'. I got alittle upset at this (I am trying to keep my emotions in check, but sometimes it is hard). I told him trying was not something I could live with, he had tried before and everytime he failed it had broken my heart alittle...so either he was going to follow through or he was not....

I kind of regret saying all that, but it felt like that by including the phrase trying he is giving himself a way out if he falls back into old habits....I could almost hear the words coming out of his mouth: "I told you I would try, and I did...we just started talking again. I am not even sure how."

I am feeling better, but still pretty miserable. I cannot sleep or eat...and I am shaking all the time. I am trying to get over it now though, because I am not going to help our relationship any by holding on to bad feelings. It is hard though...I think about them together all the time. You guys are the only ones I really talk to about this. I think it is kind of embarassing he felt he needed someone else and embarassing I cannot just get over him.

Somethings are just easier in theory then in practice.

[MissCheivious]

Well, you did the RIGHT thing, that's for sure! There's no need for you to be embarassed by this. You didn't do one thing wrong. HE DID. Plain and simple. The emotional rollercoaster you're on right now is completely normal. In a sense, you were cheated on so you're basically going through that whole thing of dealing with it. You're going to be pissed, sad, hopeful, embarassed and loads more before you get to a point where either you can get past it or you can't. You made a very good point about your hubby saying he'd "try". I think that was a very good thing to tell him that trying isn't good enough (in fact, I'm gonna steal that for myself ;) ). The only thing I can think of now is perhaps some counseling. That would help with the feelings you're having and it might just get you both on the same page again. You sound like you're not taking his sh*t anymore and for that, you're a strong woman. Don't deny yourself that. You're far stronger than you're giving yourself credit for. Remember that you always have someone here to talk to and you're doing the right thing. You've taken control of the situation. Now it's his turn to grow up and be the husband you deserve. :)

[eightball61]

You know you need to keep your foot down now and not give in. You have been played like a fool and hopefully he can set it right. He took things the wrong route and this is what he hasto pay up now. IF he wasn't so secretive and more open about the contacts then my answers would be different. This was his approach though and now if he wants to keep you he has to work on that.

[CTAnd14]

Well...hey again. I don't have much to say, but I wanted to let you know that he contacted her again. NOT that I am surprise, but it did happen alot quicker then I thought it would. He had made an appointment for us to see a marriage councilor (like I suggested) and I thought things were going well. I don't know what I am feeling at this moment....but it is definitely different from last time. NOT that I don't care, but I don't blame myself....and so it is easier to bear.

Thank you both for all your patients and advice. If I were you I would be telling me to "get out now"...somehow it is never that easy. Although it is definitely something I am considering. Thanks again for listening!

[eightball61]

A counselor may or may not work.... It is up to him if he wants to make the change by no calling her and not lieing to you. He has to be in control of his actions. Something is bringing him to her and he may not even know what that is. Marriage counseling may not be a bad idea but its him that needs the professional guidence rather than you. You can be there with him but just take the advice on how to deal with this pressure and learn how to work together. He needs to have the proper guidence on how to handle all of the above stated and learn how to handle his actions. There has to be a reason why he is calling her and the only way to maybe know that would be help.

Thanks for keeping us updated and please continue :o