Is it time to end it?

[atallman]

Hi Im new here. Got engaged a year ago to a questional girl. she has a background of drug abuse due to her mothers passing and sever depression 6 yrs ago, but has been clean for 2yrs and Im proud of her. She is mid 30's and no kids. When we first met 2yrs ago I put up with her erratic behavior and there were numerous fights due to detoxifying from the drugs and from her severe depression. I decided to take her on and help her. She has a great sense of humor and a bubbly personality and she is beautiful so that helped too. Thngs were going so well that, last May I decided to propose. She accepted, now for the negatives.
One of the things I have much trouble with is that she talks a lot with intentions, but almost always fails to back it up with action. I have suggested councilng throughout the relationship but she wont go. That has gone on throughout our relationship. She is also used to getting her way. Her family has spoiled her rotten and it shows in her attitude. She has an addictive personality and has had trouble with prescription pills and alcohol mixing. She is doing better now. Last july she wanted to move in together but she wasnt treating me well so I thought about it and said NO. She was devastated and thought I was going to abandon her, which wasnt true. I thought she needed to get her life in order first and get a grip on her depresssion. She kept calling me, bawling for me to move in with her, so I relented. Once she heard that, she talked and talked about how much fun we were going to have, going to the gym 2gether, traveling etc. Last october, we moved in and it has sucked. She has done pretty much nothing but eat and sleep and has not backed up any of her intentions. I know this stems from the depression. But she still wont do anything to remedy it. I have talked to her till I was blue in the face about how unhappy I am and how she needs to get a hold of the depression, but nothing. I do EVERYTHING, cook clean, keep track of bills, wash her dog, shop. Every once in a while she will clean something but thats it. Our intimacy is GONE. We rarely have any more. Every time I get close to her she physically pushes me away. But she has no trouble being intimate with her dog. She is always hugging and kissing on her. I havent had any quality kisses since we first moved in! It has been a huge let down and she has NO clue about my interests in intimacy. I cant even snuggle in bed with her. She says its hormones but wont go to the doctor to check it out. Its like ever since we moved in last oct, a switch has gone off and her love and affection have disappeared. Im at the end of my rope, with talking to her about these issues, because she scoffs and dismisses them. Our lease ends in Sept and Im leaning towards getting my own place. Im exhausted and hurt about the situation. Am I right about this? Or should I stick around.

[eightball61]

When your lease is up be prepared for her to throw the same tricks in again however you can't be a sucker this time. Now keep in mind that you proposed to her and getting your own place will only put these issues on the back burner.

You spent this whole relationship trying to fix her and didn't get very far. You have tried to regain the passion, to regain her self-motivation, ect. Now is the time for you to think what's going to be best for you. Again, moving out will not solve anything nor will marriage. Before you tie the knot really look deep in this relationship to see if you can truly see yourself with a smile on your face 25 years down the road.

[Lamprey2]

If she's gotten this complacent when you moved in, can you imagine how bad it will get when you're married?

Tell her exactly what you told us: ever since she moved in, the relationship sucked, as if she only cares about being taken care of and not about taking care of you in return. Selfish. This is NOT working for you, and you want her to work harder. Then, if things don't improve by the time your lease is up tell her she failed the test and move out. If that doesn't light a fire under her, break off the engagement. She needs to understand that the world does not revolve around her just because she's screwed up by drugs & depression. Other people will only work to make her happy if she works to make them happy in return.

Quid pro quo.

[atallman]

Thanks 8ball, lamprey. At first, deep down I should not have moved in with her, but for some silly reason, I thought I could help her. Im a former depression sufferer(this relationship is pulling me back that way) and I had nobody and had to seek out help. She has practically unlimited resources and could get help with no problem(grandparents are loaded and have bailed her out countless times).
I have told her in serious conversations that I wasnt ready to marry her due to her condition and her actions up to date. I dont feel taken care of at all. I was really sick last Dec with pnumonia and was sleeping on the couch for 2 weeks. She never bothered to fix me food or go out for food, never bothered to take my temp.(she's an RN BTW). I still had to get up and let her dog out in the freezing cold, she never bothered to even to just ask how Im doing. She just went to work and came home and slept all the time. That hurt. She just withdraws and tries to sweep everything under the rug and pretend it will go away. Well my feelings havent gone away. Every time I mention how dissatisfied I am she just scoffs and mentions that she stayed off drugs for me and is doing ok just to be clean. There have been scary days where she mentions "Im doing ok just getting through the day" or "it was all i could do not to drive into oncoming traffic and end it all". That kind of talk is disturbing and I have tried to talk her into getting counseling. But she lacks motivation to go. It hurts me to think that she doesnt love me enough to seek counseling or to go see the obgyn about her hormones so we can have intimacy. It makes me think Im not worth it and I need a woman that will take care of me as much as I take care of her.

[Scubasteve]

Break it off man, this is a lifetime of hell you are getting yourself into.

[eightball61]

I need a woman that will take care of me as much as I take care of her.

You're welcome.

Yes, relationships are 50/50 however just because someone may not care for you by your beside doesn't mean that they are not putting their 50% in. /they may be doing it in other ways.

[Rich]

People are who they are and no one can change another person. Personal change has to come from within. Your fiance is who she is and it doesn't seem like she wants to change. She got a free ride from her parents and family so far in life and now she views you as the next free ride. Up to you if you want to be that free ride or not.

View marriage as buying a car to help take you through life. Would you rather buy a brand new car with no defects, or a car with known engine problems. Marriage is a life long trip. Which car do you feel will better help you on this life long trip?

Some people enjoy the challenge of fixing things and getting their hands dirty, while other people just want a smooth ride with little to no problems. Which one are you?

My own personal view is that marriage leads you down a tough, rough road (kids, bills, work, mortgage, etc.) and you want a car (partner) that you can trust to help get you through that long, tough road. I'd rather start with a car with no problems and deal with the little ones that pop up, rather then a car with known engine problems and a history of breakdowns. And remember this, if you start with a brand new car with no problems and you keep up on the preventative maintenance (cards, flowers, little gifts, lots of love, time away together), the problems will be far and few between.

Good luck.

[atallman]

Well we had the breakup talk the other day. And...she says she is willing to do anything to keep me with her. She bawled over the phone about how she will get counciling etc. She has looked up numbers to councillors and an OBGYN for the feminine problems. Im love her very much but am exhausted. Since that conversation, she keeps bugging me about how she is scared of losing me, over and over and I get tired of hearing it. Its like I cant get her to relax and take 1 day at a time. It feels like if I go ahead and break it off then she wont get any help for herself. I guess Im sticking around in case she really does improve and starts to make me feel loved.

[Rich]

If you feel like she won't get help if you break it off with her, then she actually doesn't see herself as having a problem. She's only getting help because YOU want her too, not because she's come realize that she has issues that SHE needs to deal with.

People only change because THEY want to change. It's an internal knowing that things aren't right and "I" need to fix things. Doing things because someone else wants you to do them doesn't affect lasting change.

For instance, friends and family can put someone in a program for alcoholism, but unless the person with the problem wants to get help and recognizes that they have a problem, then the program won't work.

Your fiance should want to get help herself because she recognizes a problem, not just go because you want her to go. She should get help whether you're in her life or not.

[atallman]

Thanks for your input Rich. I have told her that over and over again. I have also told her NOT to do it if she doesnt want to. She usually says that "she has no choice, because she'll lose me". I tell her that she always has a choice. I have told her that she has to take care of her depression before she gets in a relationship whether its me or someone else. She has vowed to take care of this depression in order to keep me. I dont know that I want to stay. Im just taking things day by day and trying to avoid depression myself. Im so mentally fatigued and physically exhausted.

[Rich]

You control your destiny and happiness. Relationships should be happy and positive. If your relationship is not this way, then you need to ask yourself if it's what you want.

Don't stay because you feel obligated to fix this girl when she really doesn't want to fix herself. Some people talk about getting and that's all that they do. They come up with every excuse in the book as to why they can't go and they procrastinate. Yeah, she keeps saying that she'll take care of her depression, but what active steps has she taken?

If your life has taken a negative turn (tired, depression) then this girl isn't for you.

[atallman]

I see what you mean Rich. Yeah Im tired both physically and mentally. She claims that she has noticed and wants to better herself. Im confused on what to do but I do know that Im not happy and that this isnt for me. She has attended 1 counseling session and has made another appt. The bad thing is that she has continued telling me that she is doing this for me in order to keep me. I continue to frown on that and remind her that this is for HER. She fails to grasp that. And, she made the mistake of telling her counselor that. Well the counselor pretty much said that, "she needed to come back whe SHE feels SHE needs help." So I wasnt to happy to hear that. We had this morning. It didnt feel like it use to. Contrary to what she said, I dont think she enjoy it and she just did it for me. I WANT her to enjoy it. Im not sure I can have with her until she finally gets OBGYN help. Emotionally, it just doesnt feel right.

[Scubasteve]

Ok, let me chime in here.
I have just been diagnosed with severe clinical depression. I was not aware of it (or I was kidding myself) for years. My SO and I went through literal hell. He stood by me, fought for and with me and eventually broke it off. He came back a few weeks later saying he was in love with me and wanted to give it a go.

We both started seeking individual therapy. Things got loads better. He was trying hard, working at it and I did for a while too. Then I took a back slide. A bad one. He lost it with me and crying, told me it was over. He described my behaviours and it all hit home for me. I realised how depressed I was and that I needed help. I took myself off to the Dr and got myself on meds, all the while "knowing" it was over between us and that I needed help.

I called him later that day to tell him how sorry I was for all I have put him through and to thank him for opening my eyes. He was understanding and told me he was happy that I had sought help. I told him I loved him and said goodbye. He called me the following day and asked to come and see me. I welcomed him and we had a long talk. He had done research on depression and has decided to stand by me.

The only reason he did this is because I went off by myself, under my own steam to "fix" my issue. He knows that I am doing this for my own sanity, that I am working hard at it to make myself a better person. I go to therapy, take my meds and walk every morning. I know it is a long road but I am dedicated to it. Him standing by me is a bonus, not an incentive. You perhaps need to show my post to your SO so she can know that she is not the only one who has burned bridges. But you know what? With time and dedication from HER side, those bridges can be rebuilt.

[smackie9]

Someone with this type of additive background really shouldn't be in a relationship while trying to "clean themselves up" and keep clean. The relationship becomes a crutch. They just turn their dependency onto you. They need to do it all on their own if they really want out of that lifestyle. You my friend were not doing her any favours, nor to yourself. No matter how much she is bawling, it won't work on you anymore. You did the right thing by ending it. And yes you deserve a loving woman that will take care of you as much as you her.

[avocados]

i think you should wait for the woman to have herself in order before starting a life together. that way there would be lesser problems to anticipate.

[atallman]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! We had a chat yesterday about moving in to this other house for rent. I told her she would have to do it on her own and I suggested that she continue therapy. Needless to say, she started crying.....again. I really love her and told her that even though we're at separate residences, I would continue to love and support her. I dont bet on her continueing therapy as she cancelled the other day after our debate, claiming she was "too emotional", and questioned the therapy altogether. She is scared to death of being alone. I enjoy taking care of people and part of me really wants to take care of her while living under the same roof. But I remind myself of why Im unhappy: doing everything, while she wallows. I just cant live like that. My lease ends Sept.30, as of right now I'll be looking for another place for myself. She has been really cold to me the past day or so. Barely speaking, depressed pouty attitude and tone, and sleeping. Am I doing the right thing?

[smackie9]

Yes you are doing the right thing. You have to remind her that you are doing this to protect each other's well being, even though she doesn't see it that way. If she is questioning therapy, maybe she needs more than that. Maybe you could find her a rehab type facility for her to live, get full time treatment and counseling. Just give her lots of encouragement to continue working on her issues and leave the rest up to the professionals. If this story doesn't have a happy ending, don't blame yourself, you are not the one that failed her.......she did.

[atallman]

Thanks Smackie9. Today is the 6th anniversary of her mothers death. Needless to say she is REALLY depressed. Yesterday morning we had a debate. It started with another guilt trip from her. She claims that her heart is breaking both for her mom and me and that this is a terrible month. I tried to reassure her that she has my love and support but thats not enough. I got pretty miffed when she said "I feel like a car thats being returned to the lot after being driven too much", I told her that I thought she had a lot of nerve to say unkind things the way she does. I told her that I dont consider her to be some "used car" and I havent treated her that way. Then I said "Who the hell do you think has supported you emotionally, handled the cleaning of the house for you, cooked for you, kept bookkeeping for you, sacrificed sleep for your surgery, accompanied you to the doctor, taken care of your dog, made food errands for you at a moments notice, given you countless massages, sent you countless flowers and tells you, you are beautiful and loved every day!"
Yeah I got very miffed. I also told her that she doesnt ever consider my feelings in the relationship, she just takes and takes. She still doesnt get my point or rationale for living in separates residences. I dont know what to say next to her.

[smackie9]

She has used that tactic on you over the years and it seemed to work so why stop?? Now she using the death of her mother to lay more guilt on you. For shame I say!! She needs to grow up and she can't do that if you keep helping her. So you did the right thing by living separately or make plans to. She is just gonna keep play that same game to get her way. So next time when she starts in, just walk away and leave. That will let her know that that shit isn't gonna work with you anymore......

[atallman]

Well this whole weekend is just about over, and we have barely spoke. Ive spent much of my time sleeping on the couch and she watching TV in our bedroom. The only time we've spoke is when I over to get her food. I have checked on her a few times, giving her hugs and a kiss, but she is standoffish and depressed. Yesterday afternoon I think she left to go sign her new lease on her house! Im depressed myself but I think this is the way to go. It also hurts knowing that she hasnt done a damn thing to try to win me over, just the same lazy assed routine of hers. IF I was in her shoes, I'd be showering her with gifts going to therapy and taking care of myself and doing whatever I can to make myself a more functional companion in the relationship. She has such an entitlement attitude. Im very nice to her and told her I still support her and, short of moving in with her, will do anything she needs. Im trying to resume my usual routine in life. Inside, I know I will be lonely, but whats the difference? She stopped being intimate a long time ago, so Im pretty used to that.

[Scubasteve]

Keep in mind that you don't think or see things logically when you are depressed. She will also be very demotivated.
Is she on any medication for her depression?

[atallman]

Keep in mind that you don't think or see things logically when you are depressed. She will also be very demotivated.
Is she on any medication for her depression?

She was for a while, but I stressed that she should quit them. She wasnt going through any councilling whatsoever. They didnt seem to work as she slept all the time and didnt do anything except her job. She was(and still is) turned off with intimacy. I didnt agree with her primary care physician prescribing prozac and lithium and celexa, on top of her pain killers for her sore leg, and sleeping pills. I thought a psychiatrist and psychologist were the ones to prescribe the appropriate meds. She quit taking the antidepressants but neglected to see a psychiatrist. I tried to persuade her kindly but it didnt take.
I know all about depression, I once suffered for 12 years. I gained control in '04, I think Im entitled to provide advice to her.
We argued over the past 2 days pretty intensly. She still continues to withdraw to the bed and TV. My patience has run pretty thin and I struggle to keep 'barbed' comments to myself. I feel alone as she doesnt do a thing to make me happy or an attempt to make me change my mind in order to move in with her.
One of the things we discussed the other day was after I had her bawling after an argument. I said some pretty mean(to her) things and later we addressed them. It was that I was in kind of a hurry to get her treated, and she is not. We discussed that people have different speeds of recovery and I guess Im going to fast for her. She is trying but at her own pace. She sees herself as doing well and slowly recovering. Thats from her POV. Well thats just something I have to accept. Not all people heal at the same speed.
From my POV, I just dont think its enough. She lives a very sedentary lifestyle with no daily routine. Councilling sessions are too few and far between(just 1 session this whole year thus far). She has started reading self-help books more frequently which is good.
Im at the end of my rope. I dont know what else to do.

[Scubasteve]

How about SSRIs? Those tend to work a hell of allot better then Prozac and lithium. Not all people can cope without meds, that is important to keep in mind. It is sometimes like telling a diabetic to go off insulin.

At the end of the day you need to make a choice about what is the best for you. You can't spend the rest of your life in a living hell.

[Rich]

You're doing the right thing. Don't be held hostage by emotional blackmail.

She'll find another sucker to sink her clingy claws into.

[atallman]

Well, she supposed to be moving out this weekend. Im looking forward to some peace time. She still hasnt really done anything but cry here and there and grovel. I do love her, but I think this is a first step in a means to an end. She still thinks that Im going to miss her and the dog heavily, and that I will be "coming home" soon. I dont really expect her to see the counsillor or resume any kind of self help while she is on her own. She cancelled an appt. to the obgyn last week. She was supposed to get a pelvic exam. I was hoping that she was taking interest in herself finally but I think its going to b the same ol' routine. She has been negative as usual and when I ask her "why", she says"your going to leave me anyway so why bother." But yet she continues to tell me that we WILL b together and that Im NOT seeing anyone else. She has given me "rules" while we are living in seperate residences which are:
1) I can only go to the grocery store, gym, and movie theatre
2) No guests from work or area unless family
SHEESH!!

[atallman]

She moved out yesterday noon into her new rental house. I helped her with the heavier stuff. She was crying hard and was inconsolable. earlier that morning before we got started, we had a debate again, as to why this was taking place. She still doesnt really understand about the give and take of a relationship. During that time we lived together, and all the times I told her I was unhappy and that she needed to get help for her depression, she thought that I would always be with her. I told her her that she wasnt fulfilling my needs by not helping herself. I said that if you love me so much and cant live without me like u say, why couldnt you understand and DO something about my unhappiness when I told u over and over again? She confessed that she didnt know to show me love and I said thats a problem. I need intimacy in a relationship and I need somebody to LIVE with daily who will share responsibilities. She said she is healing but not at the pace I would like. She still thinks this is the end and that Im gonna hook up with somebody soon, which couldnt be further from the truth. I have NO interest in looking. I told her I just need some space and time to sort things out. She doesnt understand that. Right now she has been texting me and checking on me.

[eightball61]

Keep in mind that you don't think or see things logically when you are depressed.

That's very true & you should completely understand...


How about SSRIs? Those tend to work a hell of allot better then Prozac and lithium. Not all people can cope without meds, that is important to keep in mind. It is sometimes like telling a diabetic to go off insulin.



Listen to our forum nut because she's been there and does know best however the only problem with her is that she doesn't know how to take her own advice and use it to herself.:rolleyes:

[atallman]

Thanks for the replies. I have to keep reminding myself of her depression and the illogical thinking. She keeps up with the guilt trips and I tend to forget about the depression sometimes. If I dont respond to her texts within a certain amount of time she gets impatient and worried. Then she says things like "Im here all alone and I need to hear your voice, it wouldnt be like this had you not kicked me out". Its like Im having to remind her over and over about why the separation has happened.

[MichelleB]

just a tip if you've had enough and you two have rings together, sell it to www.idonowidont if you want closure. I thought I found the right guy and he turned out to be a mega bad choice so I sold the engagement ring he gave me for closure.

Hope this helps.

[BarbieBsMindBox]

Wow you need to run for your lie she sounds like nothing but trouble you can't help someone who wont help them self.