Is spying okay?

[AlexCrystal]

Okay...here is another problem I'm having with my long distance boyfriend (I've posted on here twice in the past...most recently the "is this cheating" thread)
Anyway....
My boyfriend spends a HUGE majority of his time on a fishing forum. One day when he was visiting me I saw where he had gone on the forum. Now this forum is made up of mostly guys and they do nothing but the typical nasty guy talk. I started reading the threads and seeing what all he would say. I never found evidence of him cheating or anything...like if he were to brag to these guys online that he hooked up with some girl or something.....never read anything like that.
So now, he knows (a long story I'll bypass) that I have gone on this forum. He says that it's spying on him and that I shouldn't be doing it....that I'm purposely looking to "catch" him saying or doing something wrong. I noticed that this girl joined the forum one day (of which there are almost ZERO girls on this fishing site) and it seemed they were pretty friendly with one another and had had instant messenger chats outside the fishing forum....I got all jealous and freaked out....I blew up about it. He said that this girl was just a friend and I had nothing to worry about and that I shouldn't accuse him. He asked me to stop reading the fishing forum because he said it's a form of spying and he hates that I go digging around on the site. I told him I'd stop.
Is this spying? The problem is....I can't help but want to look to see what, if anything, he is talking about on there. (he did mention that from now on, regardless if I'm spying or not, that he will always have in the back of his head that I may be watching and therefore he will conduct himself in a manner as such....because he hates the fact I spy.)
Is this spying????? Should I stop looking at the site?
Is it okay for him to talk to this girl outside of the fishing forum?

[eightball61]

Its only spying you are looking for dirt........

Why are you interested in looking?


Why don't you tell him about this site so he can see what you say?


Is this any different? No, he is chatting to other guys about common interest. You have found no dirt and you should accept it and leave it. All you are doing is digging yourself in a hole that you'll never be able to get out of.

You are freaked out now because you found he is still listed in the personal ads, but so aren't you. You are doing the same thing he is doing and it only makes its fair.

You both are in a LDR and you have to learn to trust. If you can't trust then you need to date someone closer. He has done nothing to prove not to trust him at this time. You need to learn to leave thing be or else you'll drive this relationship to the ground. The only fix you both need is to remove the personal ads.

[bdtraders]

Always remember that the more you look for something you will eventualy belive you find it.

Basiclly the more you worry about him cheating and starting looking at things the more your MIND will tell you he is, for instance the girl on the forum and thier Ims and chats.

Is it any different then you and a guy in the break room at work or school chatting it up about something.

Relax, the more you worry the more you are gonna make the relationship go to $#@*.

Either trust him or dont, if you dont then move on.

[Diablo]

I would stay away from the site. You could tell from his posts that he wasn't doing underhanded, so you should quit going there unless you particularly want to join that forum and you should clear it with him before you do. Everybody has places they go for privacy (away from the people in their lives) It's a normal thing and smart couples allow each other that. Now keep your eyes glued to the screen while my agents put bugs in your house. J/K.

[Rich]

IMO....if I'm not doing anything wrong, then I have nothing to worry about.

Same goes for your BF. If he's not doing anything wrong, then there's nothing to be worried about with you looking on the forum.

If I have nothing to hide from my SO, then I would encourage her to look at whatever I may be doing to alleviate her fears. Although I would want to get to the bottom of why those fears exist if I had never given reason for them.

I think him complaining about you spying is a smoke screen to confuse and hide the issue.

Openness and honesty are two important ingredients to having a great, long lasting relationship. Your BF is not being open with you. If he had nothing to hide or be ashamed of by his actions on the forum, then he shouldn't be trying to hide it from you. He should want you to look to ease your feelings and deepen your trust.

Obviously there's a lack of trust in your relationship that made you go look. His reaction and comments only further to deepen that lack of trust.

Trust is built over time and by actions. His actions aren't encouraging.

I'd be leary if I were you.

Rich

[AlexCrystal]

Rich....
I've never read anything on the forum that would lead me to not trust him (especially before he realized I was looking on there)...now since he found out I was watching...I think he tones down his "guy talk" a little bit and feels like he can't just "hang with the guys" on this site like he's always enjoyed doing...he feels like it's invading his privacy....he said he feels like I'm purposely trying to "bust" him on something. He never questions me about guy friends or what I do when I go out...and he says I should trust him and feel the same way about him.
This has become so hard on me because part of me feels like I'm being over jealous, not trusting and irrational about these things....more so than the normal person....that maybe the basic girl wouldn't pry so much and give her guy space and not accuse him of every little thing. I guess I just don't know when to accuse verses not to accuse...don't know where to draw the line.

[eightball61]

This has become so hard on me because part of me feels like I'm being over jealous, not trusting and irrational about these things....more ..


^^ This may be so but him leaving a profile up on a dating service doesn't help out on your insecurities at all.

[Rich]

A couple of things.

Are you going on that forum just to check on him or do you have an interest in learning his interests?

As for guy talk, if you two had the open, honest, mature, understanding and trusting relationship that you should have, then he could talk "guy talk" all that he wants without feeling threatend or checked up on. It's just that he's flirting with that girl and doesn't want you to see it.

Somewhere along the line there had to be little things that made you want to look on the forum.

Yes, there should be trust, but you two have this issue now that needs to be addressed.

You say to him that you're not going to check up on him anymore but on the other hand if he didn't have anything to hide, then he shouldn't be afraid to show you what he is writing or doing.

[inquisitive]

I agree with Rich. If there was nothing to hide he wouldn't care if you read his guy talk.

It sounds like he's trying to turn around what's going on so that you feel you've done something wrong. Just because he visits a site means that you can't? I can honestly say that everything I post on any forum I would be totally comfortable with my SO posting or reading on the same forum. He doesn't, because we have no internet access at home, but when we do I'm sure he will. Certain sites I go on he wouldn't be interested in at all. Has to do with fitness, running, dogs, etc. but if he wanted to go on and read, even participate, wouldn't matter.

[eightball61]

So I don't see any harm in him doing it online. BUT MY OPIONION USUALLY DIFFERS FROM EVERYONE ELSES. I think it is spying on your part. Now he feels he has nowhere to turn for that "guy talk". I understand the whole trust thing and if you trust each other you should be able to say anything to each other, but sometimes people just need to vent and get things out. It doesn't always need to be a "big discussion" with a SO, it just needs to be guy talk or girl talk.

^^ I agree ;)

[SALly]

I agree with Rich. If there was nothing to hide he wouldn't care if you read his guy talk.

It sounds like he's trying to turn around what's going on so that you feel you've done something wrong. Just because he visits a site means that you can't? I can honestly say that everything I post on any forum I would be totally comfortable with my SO posting or reading on the same forum. He doesn't, because we have no internet access at home, but when we do I'm sure he will. Certain sites I go on he wouldn't be interested in at all. Has to do with fitness, running, dogs, etc. but if he wanted to go on and read, even participate, wouldn't matter.
I dont' think she cares about a fishing forum though. She wanted to see what he was writing, that's all. I think that is spying.

[Rich]

There's different types of "guy talk".

One is the burping, farting, crude ual jokes, cursing and just slinging the bullshit. This type of talk you can also do with your wife or girlfriend if she's your best friend and you have a great relationhship. This talk can also happen over the net.

The second type of talk is typically man to man about the current relationhship that you're in. What you and your wife / GF might be going through and where you're looking for advice. This type of REAL Guy talk typically take place over a few beers at the bar, face to face.

The second type of guy talk doesn't take place on a fishing forum with strangers.

Whatever he's saying on this fishing forum he should be able to say to his GF. I'd bet a whole lot of money that he was flirting with that girl. Not saying that he would have cheated with her, but he was def flirting with her. And who knows....they start fishing the same spots, meeting each other to fish....just happen to each show up on the same fishing boat and spend the whole day next to each other fishing????

Who knows

[SALly]

There's different types of "guy talk".

One is the burping, farting, crude ual jokes, cursing and just slinging the bullshit. This type of talk you can also do with your wife or girlfriend if she's your best friend and you have a great relationhship. This talk can also happen over the net.

The second type of talk is typically man to man about the current relationhship that you're in. What you and your wife / GF might be going through and where you're looking for advice. This type of REAL Guy talk typically take place over a few beers at the bar, face to face.

The second type of guy talk doesn't take place on a fishing forum with strangers.

Whatever he's saying on this fishing forum he should be able to say to his GF. I'd bet a whole lot of money that he was flirting with that girl. Not saying that he would have cheated with her, but he was def flirting with her. And who knows....they start fishing the same spots, meeting each other to fish....just happen to each show up on the same fishing boat and spend the whole day next to each other fishing????

Who knows
You're right- who knows??!! And if she keeps spying on him then he would probably happier meeting up with this other person!!!!

[AlexCrystal]

Yeah, I have no interest in the fishing forum...I was looking just to see what all he'd write about...and in the 6 months that we've been together it has been all guy talk...like what Rich said....farting, crude ual comments, cutting up with one another..etc. etc....and NORMALLY there aren't any girls on this site...but like I mentioned at the original start of this thread.....this girl joins who everyone, including my boyfriend, thought was an imposter...a guy trying to screw with them and say she was a girl....and they guys had a field day with it...until it turned out this girl proved she was a female and really did join the site....then I noticed the conversations seemed "friendly" between her and my boyfriend (nothing indicating a motive to cheat)...but I was bothered by the fact that they had also talked on yahoo IM and they had talked on the phone. The reason the phone conversation happened was because she said "if you don't believe I'm really a girl..here's my work phone number..you can call it and see if I"m legit"....and so he did...and a few other guys on the site called it too. They have talked one other time since then on the phone (she called him) and I felt uncomfortable about that.

[eightball61]

How did you find out about the message chats outside the forum with this girl?

[inquisitive]

I dont' think she cares about a fishing forum though. She wanted to see what he was writing, that's all. I think that is spying.

I still don't see anything wrong with it. If my SO wants to come online and read everything I've ever posted he's more than welcome to because I've got nothing to hide. It wouldn't bother me in the least. That's all I'm trying to say. The fact that he's claiming he's going to start posting/chatting etc. as if she's watching him isn't right. If it was no big deal then he should continue as normal.

Edited to add: If he's talked on the phone to her, and he gave her his number I'd say you have a problem!

[eightball61]

I still don't see anything wrong with it. If my SO wants to come online and read everything I've ever posted he's more than welcome to because I've got nothing to hide. It wouldn't bother me in the least. That's all I'm trying to say. The fact that he's claiming he's going to start posting/chatting etc. as if she's watching him isn't right. If it was no big deal then he should continue as normal.




She did come across him chatting with a girl from that site.....doesn't seem like a big deal but he never told her. Communication is very big to me and it lacks in this relationship. If he saw this as not a big deal then he would have told her about this girl he been chatting with. My opinion would be much different if he was honest to her about the whole thing.

Spying is something that shouldn't be done without a good reason. The only time I would advise anyone to spy is if they had good reason their partner was cheating or hiding something. When a person spies for no reason then it just tells me they are purposely looking for a way to end the relationship.(my opinion)

____________________________________


(An Extra Thought)

Lets not forget that he has an ad up in a singles site but I am not counting that in anymore because she has one up also. She has failed to tell him about it and assumed he knew about it...so thats why i am not prying on that piece anymore.

[Rich]

Alex-

The bottom line is if you trust him and what is your intuition telling you.

Go with your gut, it's usually right on.

Talking on a forum, im chats and calls on the phone? She must be a great fisherwoman.

The best place and time to catch a fish is where there's a lot of fish concentrated in one area and you're the only one fishing.

Sort of like being the only woman on a guy fishing forum. It's a good place to go if you're trying to catch a guy. Concentration of guys...the only one fishing....?

Damn...I shouldn't have said that. Now all you fine women on this forum are going to leave and join fishing forums. LOL

Rich

[SALly]

Alex-

The bottom line is if you trust him and what is your intuition telling you.

Go with your gut, it's usually right on.

Talking on a forum, im chats and calls on the phone? She must be a great fisherwoman.

The best place and time to catch a fish is where there's a lot of fish concentrated in one area and you're the only one fishing.

Sort of like being the only woman on a guy fishing forum. It's a good place to go if you're trying to catch a guy. Concentration of guys...the only one fishing....?

Damn...I shouldn't have said that. Now all you fine women on this forum are going to leave and join fishing forums. LOL

Rich
What's that fishing forum??? :p

[SALly]

I guess the phone calls make it a bit weird. I can see the one where she said call if you don't believe me. She is playing those guys, and they fell for it hook line and sinker!! I chat online with guys all the time but I don't call, and never plan to hook up with them, it is just pure chatting fun. What was the second call for???

[AlexCrystal]

Sally,
I don't know what the second call was for.
And like 2 days ago he told me (without me asking) that this girl had called him again. I said "why did you even answer the call".....he said because it's no big deal and he considers her a friend...but then he told me that he did however tell her "my girlfriend doesn't like that we've talked on the phone and it's best if we keep it to the fishing forum". Now..who knows if he REALLY said that exactly...but he claims he did.

[SALly]

It does sound a littly "fishy". If it's true then it sounds great! He realized it wasnt' appropriate and you didn't approve so he stopped it. Unless he is lying- but I guess only you can figure that one out.

[eightball61]

It does sound a littly "fishy".



good call................... :p

[AlexCrystal]

Sally....did he say he ever actually called her or that she called him???

[Diablo]

Everyone needs a measure of their own space, even if they're married. She checked out the site and found no evidence of wrong doing on his part. I think this could become a big issue that doesn't have to be. So far he doesn't seem to be having an affair, but he could if this becomes an issue. Also, have you two made a commitment to date each other exclusively? If you haven't, he can have another gf if he wants.

[AlexCrystal]

Diablo,
Yes, we decided over 5 months ago to be exclusive and not date other people. I don't have solid evidence of true "cheating" whether it be on this fishing forum or over the personals ad (from my other thread :-))
I guess I'm trying to determine what is OKAY and acceptable and what is not.....if you draw the line at talking to a girl over the phone and IM that you just met on a fishing forum.....or you accept that as okay behavior. Same thing with the personals ad that he had up before we started dating that he has not taken down.

[eightball61]

Everyone needs a measure of their own space, even if they're married. She checked out the site and found no evidence of wrong doing on his part. I think this could become a big issue that doesn't have to be. So far he doesn't seem to be having an affair, but he could if this becomes an issue. Also, have you two made a commitment to date each other exclusively? If you haven't, he can have another gf if he wants.


Diablo,

Did you skip over the part where she did find the evidence? She found out he met a girl, have been talking to her through im's, and she even called him once!!! :eek:

[AlexCrystal]

well...they didn't actually MEET. She lives in Texas and he lives in Flordia. (they just met through the fishing forum online)

[eightball61]

well...they didn't actually MEET. She lives in Texas and he lives in Flordia. (they just met through the fishing forum online)


I bolded it out for you in your qoute.....they did meet but it was online....

To me the words "met" and "meet" are the same meaning...I guess it all depends how its used in a sentence.

[Rich]

So........what's the bottom line here folks and can we learn a lesson from all of this?

And that answer is yes.

The lesson that we all need to learn from this is that when it comes to our relationship, is that it's always a work in progress.

We need to always be fine tuning our relationship in every area that we can and making it stronger everyday so that when these little speed bumps (innocent IM chat...key chain) come along, they don't derail or damage the relationship. They quickly become non issues.

Maturity, understanding, love, compassion, communication, humor, affection, openness, conversation, intimacy, contentment, security, respect, equality, etc., etc. and etc.. These are all the areas in our relationship that we should be working to strenghten EVERY day. If we're striving to do this, then chances are these little issues won't even come up because there won't be a need for either partner to look elsewhere for ANYTHING (innocent or not).

The problem is that once we get settled into our relationships, we put them on criuse control. We think we have it made and that we don't have to work anymore. We become reactive instead of proactive.

Keep this in mind. A relationship is like a house or a car. If you're constantly doing preventative maintenance, upkeep and working to make it nicer and better....then it will last a long, long time. They all will.

On the other hand if you do no work and just let things go or let it run, then after awhile you're only going to face one problem (break down, leak, fight) after another. At that point the car, house or relationship becomes more work than fun and people grow tired and frustrated by it.

Don't let your relationship break down and become frustrated by it. Do something everyday to strenghten one part of your relationship and you'll have an awesome one. A little tweaking or fine tuning everyday sure beats a total break down.

Is it so hard every once in a while to:

-make a call out of the blue to say I love you.
-leave a card somewhere for your partner to find that says I care about you and love you.
-come home with a little present for your SO
-both call in sick and spend the day in bed
-just snuggle on the couch watching tv
-ask if there's anything that I can do differently for you.
-ask if they're happy or if there's anything bothering them that you can help with.
-tell them that you love them more today than yesterday
-make a special date with them
-just let them know that they're thought of and that they're special to you.

Plus so much more.

Ok. I'm putting my soap box away for today.

Peace and love my friend and love the piece you're with. :-)

Rich

[eightball61]

^^ Amen Reverend............aaaaaaaaaaammmen ;)

[SALly]

Hell- I'm MOTIVATED for the day!!!! :D

[AlexCrystal]

I Second That Eightball!!!!! Go Rich!!!

[Rich]

Thanks, guys. :-)

It's sort of why I became a relationship consultant. Having a great relationship is easy. It just takes a different mindset and approaching things from another angle.

It's my deepest desire to do my small part and help reduce the divorce rate in this country and just in general.

Being happy and staying happy is so easy. It really is. That's why I like working with couples, engaged or not, and showing them what constitutes a great relationship.

Sometimes all that it takes is to identify for folks what they should be striving towards and showing how they can easily get there.

Most people "just hope" for a great relationship and "just hope" that things work out, without really doing anything. Like mentioned....having a great relationship is a "hands on" process. An easy hands on.

Enjoy,

Rich

[eightball61]

Most people "just hope" for a great relationship and "just hope" that things work out, without really doing anything. Like mentioned....having a great relationship is a "hands on" process. An easy hands on.



Rich, this statement above is so true. Couples need to work together as a team to make things successful. Teamwork doesn't always work and in that case you need to leave to find a better match.

[Rich]

And that's what the dating process should be used for.

While dating, you should be asking, probing, questioning and guaging your partner on what you know it'll take to have a great relationship. And if you see from actions, words or what have you, that no long lasting match can happen, then move on.

Dating is like taking a car for a test drive before buying it. You need to put it through its paces and shake it out to see if you'll be happy with it long term.

And that's the problem, most people just date to do something and have fun, they don't use it for what it should be used for and that's getting to TRULY KNOW the other person.

I say this for people looking for a wife or husband. People under 25 and not looking for marriage should just date to have fun.

Rich

[eightball61]

I can admit I can be a royal pain in my girlfriends ass by always talking about things or try fixing problems, but she does appreciate the effort I put in because to her it shows I am denicated to the relationship. When a couple cares enough about each other to want to make things work then they will try. A relationship fails when the couple makes it fail by giving up.

[AlexCrystal]

Rich, I totally agree..although I think it's hard to keep the "just having fun and date" in perspective....especially for a female....because if you are "dating and having fun" you end up falling for someone....and there lies the cycle. I don't know if I'm exactly looking for a husband right now...I'd at least like to get married in my early 30's....so I wish I was one of those girls that could look at all this I've been worried about and laugh....and say...who cares...just have fun with the guy!!! And what will be, will be. Man, if I could live life like that, I'd be set!!!

[eightball61]

Then go out to have fun if you are not ready to settle yet....

[Rich]

It's all how you approach things and think. But I know that all people are different.

There's nothing wrong with falling for someone and having feelings for them.

You need to have a mindset as to what you want. If you know that you're years away from looking for a husband and getting married, then you know to not get caught up in all the bullshit that goes on in a relationship. Just let it all slide like water off a ducks ass.

Don't let little things bother you and go with the flow.

If you are looking for a husband though, then you need to plan, weed out the riff raff and not let the break ups get to you because you know what the end goal is.

And BTW...what's the difference if you're not looking for a husband but you're dating one guy for years and years? Isn't that like being married?

If you're not looking for marriage then date many people and experience many things. Experience is such a great tool to have on your side.

Rich

[AlexCrystal]

Rich,
I don't know what profession you are in or what type of educational background you have...but DAMN YOU ARE GOOD!! :-)

[Rich]

Thank you very much for the compliment. ;)

Glad that you like my advice. All that we can do is try, right? LOL

Go within.....all the answers that we seek are there.

Rich

[Howard]

I can admit I can be a royal pain in my girlfriends ass by always talking about things or try fixing problems, but she does appreciate the effort I put in because to her it shows I am denicated to the relationship. When a couple cares enough about each other to want to make things work then they will try. A relationship fails when the couple makes it fail by giving up.


Yes,It has to be a 2 way street a give and take sort of relationship.I myself are a pain in my girlfriend's ass by keeping her on the phone too long and not being able to get to sleep.But,I enjoy talking to Robin a lot,I really do. :)

[AlexCrystal]

Howard, is your relationship long distance?

[Howard]

Howard, is your relationship long distance?



She lives far but not too far.She lives in Williston Park,New York(on Long Island)so she lives about one bus away. :) Which is quite good for me.1 bus there and 1 bus going home. :)

[luvme4ever]

I think it's a normal thing to do. Too bad you got caught though.. hehe.. but the thing is.. I am too.. think it's fun to check wut my bf is doing. You knoe? but I stop, because curiousity only get u either heartache or joy. Let it come spontaneously. If it's meant to be, let it be. Just be yourself. Like they say, the more you knoe, the more u have to worry. So why would you want to b worry?