I'm just a guy who can't understand...

[blindice]

So here's the deal. My girlfriend and I have been together for about 9 months now. I've dated before, had some bad break-ups, so messy relationships and what-have you, but from all of it I've learned and grew to know what I want and what I need and the difference between the two. My girlfriend is everything I want. I don't need to look anymore. She has had some past issues, a horrible divorce, and a bad off-on relationship just a few months before me. Now, I'm not a perfect man, I make mistakes just like anyone else, but I'm not horrible. I've never cheated, I hate lying and I have incredible patience and self-control.
So here's the problem. There's no physical interaction. Sure, maybe in the beginning, but even then, there was hardly anything. I'm very respectful of the lady and what she wants. I'm not forceful and I'll move at her pace. I've been in a relationship where the woman wanted to wait till marriage, and that was fine. But at the very least there should be some passion, some making-out, or some deep kissing. I'm not getting any of that. I know she loves me, as I love her. I've proven to her that I'm trust worthy, I've laid it all out on the table about how I feel about her. She's told me she has no doubts towards me. But there's always excuses with her when I suggest we make out. We have before, but she's always felt like she had to have some drinks first. She finds me attractive, she told me that at least, and she's said I'm everything she wants.
I'm big on communication. Problem? Talk it out. Fix it. Make it better. I just want to understand. I've told her what I need, and she's been a tiny bit better, random kisses on the cheek. But we're a couple of grown adults now, why are we still playing this "I can't kiss you like that" game. Does she really just have no drive at all? Is it me? I don't smell funky, I shower regularly, and always have a mint or gum with me for my breath. I don't understand. Some please help. I don't want to lose her, but at the same time I'm feeling completely tortured here.

[Phoenix]

Hi Blindice,

I understand your situation, and among adults, when a woman is not open to physical intimacy it is generally (not always) because she is in fact, not, attracted.

Whether she says she is or not, her actions display another mindset entirely.

Also, if she needs to have a few drinks before she is physical with you, this would reinforce her not being attracted to you, in that way.

Now, both of these instances could also imply a few other things as well: such as, she was physically attacked or assaulted by someone before she met you (though I hope she would have told you about this at least); or she could be going through bodily changes that would make her libido slower (there are great vitamins to help offset this in women), and finally, if she has any children, or if you and she both work a lot, or have any stress, those are ALL things that would make a woman not want to be physical, at the moment.

In most of those cases though, if you were being even a little romantic, funny, laughing and talking with her (not focused on mind you), but being together, she would want to be intimate with you after a short amount of time in this togetherness.

Finally, be sure there isn't something you're doing that is irritating to her in some way. Some women are easily distracted from physical touching by small irritations.

I hope this helps you both discover whatever the issue is and work it out.

Peace :)

[Vega]

find out what happened to her previous relationships and why they didnt work out, even her divorce. if the reason is somewhat similar to what you are experiencing now then maybe its time to think for the long term, if this will be a potential problem that you will find hard to handle someday then maybe its time to run and cut your losses.

[smackie9]

She has a strong belief that in all forms should wait til marriage. She is religious I'm guessing, and through their teachings they say one thing will lead to another and she will fall into temptation. (Heaven forbid!) If she is the one like you said she is and you have no need to look anymore, then propose marriage and elope or plan a winter wedding. If you are hesitant of the suggestion then she isn't the perfect one you claim her to be.

This girl is sticking to her guns and there is no changing her mind unless you are walking down that isle.

[Kirstylou]

Maybe she's very shy, and feels overwhelmed by you, I have been the same in the past where I have found I can't show my emotions now and again! I Can't explain why I feel like that I just do! Have u asked what she wud like from this relationship? Or why she acts like this towards or? Or even told her this is extreamly hard for u and u don't feel love/cared for. Hope things work out hun! Please get back to us!!

[eloquent]

Since you have already discussed this with her and you have seen a bit of a change from her then this would mean that she doesnt want to lose you and she is making efforts to change ( although it is a bit slow ) try to be more encouraging and make it a point to mention that you have noticed changes and that you liked it and then maybe drop a hint that you want a bit more of that..

The way I see it, she wants things to go really slow and if its the only way to get her to be intimate.. by all means, go slow :)

[blindice]

Hey all, thanks for the help. Well it seems like things have gotten a bit better. Granted it's still been really tough and it's still real slow. I have learned that the subject of isn't really a very comfortable subject for her. I also know that her x husband has cheated on her, and that while she was married to him he had made her do things she didnt like. She seemed as if that was a sensitive subject and so I didn't push it too much further at that time.
So here's some additional information. That will help most of you understand a bit more. I personally feel that she has an amazing body, great smile, beautiful eyes, the whole package. She has not felt this way. As her backside is nice, her topside isn't proportional, because of this, she recently underwent some inhancement surgery to fix that. That was a few weeks ago and she's doing much better.
Now I know that just changing the outward appearance doesn't change the chemical makeup of the body or brain at all. However, she is feeling ier because of it, and has been a bit more readily available and comfortable with her body towards me. The daunting task of taking care of after the surgery and helping her around the house and what-have-you, really showed my ability to take care of her and gave her a different look into the type of guy I am when it comes down "better or worse". I've made it clear to her that based on her previous actions, that even after marriage it would like nothing would happen physically. But like I said, small steps from her have been happening.
Currently I'm thinking that there was some trauma in her past that is currently preventing her from feeling that level of intamcy, or for some reason she is still scared. I did kinda bug her about making out the other night and she made the comment that if I want to so badly then just do it.
Now I'd like to think I can pick up on the signs of when a girl is interested, you know. Certain non verbal behaviors that indicate that the woman would be interested in doing something. But she doesnt have any of that. Which is odd to me. She tends to pull away after a few kisses. But, when I do connect a good passionate kiss, it leaves her a bit breathless. So based on that, I can only assume that she enjoys my kisses. She isn't one to lie or fake anything like that just please me, as I've made it quite clear (as has she) that there is to be no sugar coating.
My only belief at this point is that there was some level of intimacy trauma, and that possibly things will better once she is healed up from her surgery. Again though, trying to make a move first in a borderline fashion isn't my thing, especially if she had that trauma.

Thanks for everyone's help, and I'll try and update in a couple of weeks.

[smackie9]

Well if she says just do it then just do it. There will be a day when she will reveal whatever she is closely guarding about what has happened. She just needs to completely trust you, then things will fall into place. Best of luck.

[Rich]

Passion is not something that you just turn on and off. Either it exists, or it doesn't. It's not here and it's not with this woman.


sounds like you might have 8 or 9 out of 10 with this woman. Up to you to decide if the 1 or 2 missing items ( and passion) are deal breakers.

And you need to be honest with yourself about your ual needs. It's ok to want it. We all want it. It's a stress relief. It provides another level of closeness with our partner. means alot of different things and if it's not here now, don't expect it to magically appear after you get married, are together 24x7, have kids that make you tired, have jobs that make you tired and have bills to pay that causes stress.

Be realistic about expectations and wants. It's ok to feel that you came close with this girl but in the end, it's not going to work long term.

Go find a girl just like this one but that will also provide the physical contact that you desire.

is fun and it feels great. Sucks to go through life without it. And you're not a bad person to break up with her because you want it and she doesn't. It's called life. Take care of your needs and your souls needs first.

[quirkycolors]

if i love my man i can't WAIT to get physical with him. that's the drive inbetween my partner and i.

maybe she's had bad experiences like someone telling her she was too ferocious, was easy, or something terrible like that so now she feels bad to do it. positive reinforcement helps a LOTTTT

[blindice]

Hey all, More information.
First I want to thank those who have been responding and reading, or just viewing, it's all appreciated on some level.

Well, recently it was discovered that she's had problems with this sort of "lack of drive" before. AND also come to discover that she's gone to the doctor for it and that she has no drive because of her lack of testorone. Her hormone levels are off and she's been trying to fix it with no luck. Past relationships have been jeopordized because of it. Now, like I've said, I love her, I'm patient, and understanding. It took a lot to get this out of her as it's not something she was too happy to talk about of course. She didn't want me becoming pushy and/or impatient with her and thinking she wasn't trying at times or didn't love me. Which of course I don't and I wouldn't. But again, that was more of a reference to her x-husband, who most likely came across as an a-hole about it. She even said and I quote, "I really wish I was a crazed woman who actually had to tone it down, and not up."
The lack of , well... it's a little frustrating. I've never really been dependent on it like most guys. Kissing and passion is a definite. But if its truely something she can't help because of a chemical her body isn't producing i can't fault her for that. She's going back to the doctor next week and hopefully some solutions that won't cause too much will arise. She's also been to psychologists and had many discusions with them with no solution. I talked to her extensively as well. I thought maybe she had some issues from her past where she didn't like it anymore or it was hurtful experience or something. But talking about the x-husband and asking if she has forgiven him and moved on she wasn't hestitant to say that she has on both counts. She seems to be at peace with it and prior experiences don't seem to cause any undue stress or anxiety when talking about it. Her body language and non-verbal behavior dictates she's relaxed and calm, which led me to believe that it's more chemical than anything else.
She still has a few trust issues, but those have been almost completely wiped out. It's been a slow process but she seems to be getting better. I'm not purposely looking for things here or making excuses by any means, but there's been small improvements that I think a boyfriend would notice in his girlfriend.

On a more personal level though, my luck in women has never been very great. And whereas she has been way better than all the previous ones, it still bums me out a bit.

So I guess now, it's just a question of, what could she take, herbal or not, that would raise her drive? And what are the negative side-effects?

[blindice]

Well I thought I had responded, but apparently it didn't work. So let's try this again.
First, thanks for the responses and the views on the subject matter. Any and all advice is welcome.
So some new information came to light recently that changes the game a bit. Apparently she has low hormone levels that don't give her any drive. She's been to the doctor before, tried some herbal stuff and other things, but it hasn't been working. She went recently, and is going again next week. I find this out after another long discussion about it. Would have been nice for her to tell me sooner as it would have prevented some unwanted and unneeded arguments. Upon asking why she didn't, it's not something she really wanted to discuss as she was afraid that I would now be looking for a change when she takes something opposed to being a 3rd party witness to the change... sorta speak. Plus, her x-husband had been very pushy and distrusting of her when it came to that sorta thing (doctors and medicines and such) and she didn't want a repeat of that, which was frustrating to me because once again she makes comparisons to me and "other guys" as she puts it, who all do the same thing. Which led to another discusions that I'll get to in a moment. But, the fact is, she has a hormonal imbalance that she's been trying to fix for a few years now with no luck. She has a Gyno Lady Doctor who specializes in the drive of women and will be talking with her frequently. My girlfriend said, and I quote, "I really wish I could be a crazed woman who couldn't get it enough and had to tone it down, but it just doesn't work that way for me" So quite honestly, I don't feel I can fault her now due to that it's something that is technically out of her control.
Now, back to the other thing. Our discusion had taken a different direction and led me into unwanted territory as I discovered she has some major trust issues. The x-husband cheating on her, the apparently gross number of guys she's met over the years who have hit on her while they are in a relationship, flirted with her and other such forms of flattery from men who are already committed to someone else, not to mention the guy she broke up with 4 or 5 months before me who broke with her out of the blue just after an off/on relationship of a year via EMAIL! My initial response was something I had ranted in my car on my own, because it would only hurt her feelings. Basically I felt that she needs to just suck it up and move on, but i know that's wrong. Everyone takes pain a different way. MY past experiences completely dictate that I should have absolutely NO trust in women and be completely on my guard. But I never do, I learn from their mistakes and mine and try and become a better person from it. Not so here. She has taken it that ALL guys are the same, ALL guys flirt, and there's no guarantee that I'll be with her a full year, no matter HOW big my promises are. Which, quite honestly, fired me up. If there's 3 things I can say, it's that I haven't done drugs, never smoked anything, and never NEVER cheated or lied to the woman I'm with. It's disrespectful and wrong. I understand she has doubts and her experiences dictate otherwise. So I'm doing my best to be understanding of that whole trust issue for her, but it ain't easy.

So, a wrap up if you skipped around. My girl has no drive cause of a chemical hormonal imbalance, which she is looking to fix currently. And, she still has trust issues after 10 months of being with me. Which, honestly, she said she trusts me 95%.
I'm hoping that this all ends in a happy ending, hahaha... happy ending. Double entandre?

[smackie9]

There's a perscription hormone cream that is applied to the l area that can cause ual stimulation. Have her look into that.

[Creek Side]

I am no expert and a great deal of the advice offered so far is pretty right on except I would not consider proposing marriage. Adults who have been mashed up in previous relationships have lots of rejuvenation to do before they are 100% available to another relationship. Your friend sounds to be hesitant/anxious about intimacy. Why? is the answer you need to discover before investing anymore of your heart. Simply, the dynamics of adult relationships are no secret. Commitment, Loyalty, Respect, Honesty, Intimacy, Reliability, Faithfulness and being interested in your partner’s happiness. If you are to be "Modified through behavior modification techniques (denial of affection) or tested to see what your level of interest truly is then I would request a sit down for an honest discussion. You both need to seriously think about what this is, where this is going and what you both need to make life work. Take a break from each other to think things over and then come back together to see if you can come together. Life is short. Be honest with yourself. Is this woman who is cold and unaffectionate what YOU want? There is the possibility that she is no longer interested in men. It happens and if you really care about her you will support her no matter what the result. She just may not no what to do so she is doing the familiar thing. Be patient and let her know that you are her friend and that she can tell you anything with out the fear of rejection. That is loving her.

[blindice]

@Smackie
Ya, she mentioned some stuff that you can rub on the inner thighs, not sure if it's the same stuff.

@Creek
I've been very supportive and doing my best to be understanding of her issues, but not to a point where I'm not gonna discuss it and hope it works itself out. I'm very big on communication and i feel that thats key right now. Lately it's felt that there's been a lot of talking and I don't want to lose the enjoyment part of the relationship through all the annoying talking. So I try to break it up a bit, because I feel that having serious talks ALL the time can be emotionally draining and that's it important to still have fun and enjoy each other's company. Which of course we do. I know that there's still things that need to be talked about and worked out and I've been doing some personal searching of my own to make sure i know exactly what I want and expect. 10 month mark... it's time for some serious "go or no go" conversations. Like I said, everything is awesome, I've definitely developed some strong feelings for her, and I have plenty of laughter and great times with her. Just as of late there's been some concerning issues that I feel need to be ironed out if things can progress in the direction that we both hope for.

So here's a question I propose to everyone, and let me preface this first with what I already know. I know that it's important to know what you want and need and the difference between the two when getting into a serious relationship.
Question: Is it wrong to think that she should want to be physical with me (ie. various levels of physical intimacy) because it makes me happy, regardless if she wants to or not?
Now again, I know women are different, but from my past experiences, conversations with past x's after it was over, it came to light that sometimes they would be physical with me even if they didn't want to cause they just liked making me happy. And, on the opposite side of that, I've done stuff for my x's and current girlfriend that I didn't want to do, because it made them happy. Of course it's not something I would bring up cause it devalues what I did and takes the joy out of it for them.
And if this isn't such a bad thing to think, how can I even approach such a subject with a woman? "If you love me you'll do it?" no.. bad idea... "I do things for you that I don't want to do"... oh ya? like what.... bad idea.

Thanks again for everyone's insight

[smackie9]

Well if you think about it, you shouldn't have to ask.

I'm not sure why you would develop feelings for someone that doesn't provide the basic needs for a relationship. If your expectations are not being fulfilled, then it means you shouldn't be together.

It's like buying a car when you realize you need a truck to haul things around for your job. You would sell the car and buy a truck because it fulfills you needs. These issues you have with her are a big elephant in the room and it's take up a lot of emotional space.

I think you are missing the point about what relationships are really about. It's about finding your match and not making it your match. Someone that compliment you, stands by you, is your partner, fulfills your needs, you are able to fulfil theirs, get along, no brick walls. 10 months in and already you are emotionally drained and are on here for advice. Know when to say "This isn't what I need" "I can't fix this". You just have to let this one go.

[Creek Side]

Blindice...

Let me take a shot at answering and please keep in mind I am but one soul in the universe and... I'll preface my answer with "I am somewhat conservative when it comes to ual exchange." Here goes: First, I fully believe that when in a relationship that includes ual exchange that each participant "SHOULD" give 1000% (Heart, Soul, Physical Strength, Passion, and Flexibility) but it does not mean deviation/compromise from personal values. For example, I am not into swapping. Some people love swapping their mates for other's mates. Not me. When I am with? I am with the one woman and that is it and she gets what she wants!!! Now most men like the idea of two women at one time. This is an experience I have yet to enjoy and I do not see it happening anytime soon, but have no judgment for or against. If you are advocating some act that your partner is not comfortable with then I would not force it on them. We all make choices when it comes to paring off with one individual and one individual (you, me, etc...) has limitations. To make the relationship work we work within those limits.

Now, second part of the answer! Things change!!! Attitudes and beliefs change as time passes and experiences accumulate. So if you are not into oral this year does not mean you won't next year. Same with paring, anal, etc...

It comes down to... "Do you want to journey with the soul that is your friend, to navigate the ups and downs the inns and outs of life, discovering along the way?

If you are truly "still having fun and enjoying each other's company" then cool the press to fill the needs for a bit, step back and take an honest look at her, at the essence that makes her attractive to you and then take an honest look at your self and the importance you are placing on the unfilled need. From there you (who are smart enough and savvy enough, i.e., I feel that having serious talks ALL the time can be emotionally draining and that's it important to still have fun and enjoy each other's company) will come to the right answer.

A final thought... We all struggle with this same question throughout life. I have this philosophy: We spend the first third of our life learning how to survive, the next third discovering who we are, and the final third racing to be significant. The final third is usually when we compile a bucket list of anything goes. It is foolish to wait so long to live. But that is what we do. At least some of us do.

I have confidence that you will do the right thing and not cause unnecessary hurt for her or yourself.

Good Luck

[blindice]

Smackie, you make some a good point. I'm not a fixer, i shouldn't have to fix it, car/truck metaphor is great.
Creek Side, you also have some great points too.

Here's the deal. I'm fine by myself, I'm good single. I can honestly say, without a doubt that I'm totally fine not being married and living down that particular road of happiness, and feel that I can be just as happy being single as I am now with the woman. I don't feel that a relationship defines me, I define who I am. I've grown after each disaster always trying to find the "more we know" moment from it. I've learned what I want, and have become more and more picky. The woman I have now in my life is everything I've been looking for. When the relationship first started it was still slow in the passion realm, but it was still there and it was enjoyable.
I went searching and looking for this forum because I was confused. After reading the responses on here, and other threads, talking with friends, and a couple family members, I had learned something about myself. I was confused for one reason, and it's been a past predicament in other relationships. Lack of actual , and/or extreme passion do not dictate if a woman cares about me or not. There are other things that are deeper than just that.
Of course, that's not to say that being intimate with someone doesn't mean they don't deeply care about you, but what I was doing was making it about that and only that.

Now that I'm in the relationship, I don't want out. Not that I won't leave if I need to. And please notice the word choice, "need". I know what I need, and I know what I don't need. I know what I can handle and can't. It's taken awhile, but I've gotten there. As long as I keep the open communication without making it tiring and annoying, there can be growth.
I also have hope, because I've seen the passion she has, in it's brief and fleeting moments, I've seen it, so I know it's there. If this has been a problem for her in other relationships, I can acknowledge that. Trust issues, I can understand that.
I want to learn and help. I don't want to fix, I don't want to work. I hate working. But I recognize that in a relationship, there is work, and there is growth. Granted, it shouldn't have to happen only 10 months in. But it is, and I'm here, and I want to learn and grow.

So with that all said, and the research I've done, I've concluded that her initmacy issues result in a psychological problem, as studies have shown in most women. So now the question is what's next? She's got a divorce resulting from a cheating husband, a previous where the guy was pushy and when things were great he broke up with her after a year, and before her marriage a guy taking advantage, and her first breaking up with her after being 6 months on the pill and no drive. APPARENTLY, she had one before the pill, but this was all 10 years ago. On top of that the doctor said her hormone levels were off. She tends to stress a lot, but she also runs every morning and exercises regularly. So with all that information, I'd suspect it's a mental thing. I'm positive that things can work out. It's just a hunch I have and my hunches are 85% right... I'd say 95% but that sounds y. She's been to a shrink, apparently a few, to figure it out, and none of them have any insight.

I really appreciate everything everyone has said and I really do consider it all. I'm viewing the big picture, where I am, and if she's in it. I don't want to hurt anyone in this process, but I also don't want to quit on something when I've seen and witnessed the incredible potential for this relationship to sky rocket to new heights. Once I have no hope, then I'm out. And trust me when I say that if my hope is gone, I'm totally done. Been there, done that.
Thanks.

[AlwaysHungry]

If is important to you, get out. You'll either leave her or cheat.