complicated-help or thoughts required

[teaboy]

I will make t5his as brief as I can. The brevvity will make you think I have been a terrible person. But these are the facts-
I left my wife of 18 years while she was in the early stages of pregnancy. It was a crazy thing to do. I was massively in love with someone else at the time and thought if I didn`t do it then I never would. I was absolutely racked by guilt and to this day have returned twice to my wife and have split with my new love (whom I was living with) 5 times in four years. I am on anti depressants and suicide watch. Thankfully my relationship with my 2 kids is good. My lover was incredibly jealous and I started out seeing my child in sevret as she was unable to deal with it. Every time we have split she has become more insecure. I tell lies constantly in order not to annoy her. I think I am the cause of her behaviour. My wife and I are friends when I am living alone, enemies when I am with the other woman. I have never been able to live with it. I have even lived alone and been mates with my wife and dated my lover. She gives deadlines as to when I will be dumped if I don`t go back to her. The deadlines pass, we row and then I tell her I will go back to her. But I have been there 4 times intotal and its always broken down after 6 months because I cannot handle it. My wife steadfastly believes this woman has driven me insane and that one day I will come back to my senses. I should have either left or never had an affir. I have made a total mess of my life and the lives of two women. I only left my wife in the first place because of an ultimatum by my lover. The minute I did it she wanted me to get an immediate divorce and she and I have constant rows about the fact that I care too much for her. I am a very weak man. I genuinely sit every day in despair in my rented flat exchanging texts to both of them on different numbers. Its a crazy world. If I had never had an affair I would still be with my wife. If my wife was happy to let me go, Id be happy with my lover. I am neither.

[smackie9]

Make peace with your wife and ditch the GF. Either that get a divorce, take your lumps and make sure you wear s from now on before the GF have another tool to manipulate you.

Things would have been different if you would have just went to counseling with your wife instead of finding a place to stick your d ick. Karma is an interesting thing....when you make selfish choices, you get a big di ck shoved up yer ass.

[newmoonmagic]

Cripes, Op did you actually expect to get some support and emphathy here? Leave BOTH women and concentrate on the relationship with your therapist so that you learn to love yourself. Once you like you, you'll not let your di ck ruin your life any longer.

Say goodbye to the shrew you call a lover, only speak to your wife if it's in regard to your children, concentrate on yourself and overcoming your "weakness"

Good luck.

[Creek Side]

Man I don't even want to talk to you. You left your wife of 18 years in the middle of a pregnancy? Massively in love with someone else while you are copulating and impregnating your wife? This is a mid-life Apocalypse. So what about the baby? I don't mean you I mean the baby? Your baby? The one with your eyes, smile, etc...? Hope you have a good job and lawyer. Hope your new squeeze is fantastic!

Look. I understand that things change but have some class in making the change. The first bit of life your child is experiencing is REJECTION from it's creator! Feel guilty? You should. My only serious advice is clean up this mess. Do things right. Don't hate your life and those in your care until they are comfortable with the change. If this is a case of I was starved (I don't see how) but if it is then stay starved until this is decided or else risk having another B A B Y to contend with.

[teaboy]

As I said, for the sake of brevvity I missed out a lot of detail. Such as a long standing afair that my wife had with a friend of mine a few years before the break up. The "BABY" as quioted above is actually now a toddler and with me atleast 2 full days a week- usually more. This is something I have sought via court action. His regular overnight stays would be cancelled if I was not living alone, which I think is a tad unfair. So whilst its not ideal, he does very much regard me in every way as his father. What everyone here is stating is that you should stick with your wife inspite of everything which is laudible but not always possible. The other child is almost 20 years old and the second one has a very good relationship with me. My question is really, should I sacrifice everything in order to keep my wife happy and therefore allow me more access to him. The unanimouus answer of the forum is yes. So, thanks for the advice but please also consider that unless you find yourself in a dark plcae, you really do not know what you would do. And both relationships go far boyond the bounds of shallow things like . Anyway, as I say and as you all say, I have a lot to be guilty for. I screwed up. Getting her pregnant was something I had to do as she was on my case 24/7 as she previously miscarried a child 5 years ago. It was always against my will. I should have been stronger but he is shere now and I love him. And nobody is perfect.

[teaboy]

Man I don't even want to talk to you. You left your wife of 18 years in the middle of a pregnancy? Massively in love with someone else while you are copulating and impregnating your wife? This is a mid-life Apocalypse. So what about the baby? I don't mean you I mean the baby? Your baby? The one with your eyes, smile, etc...? Hope you have a good job and lawyer. Hope your new squeeze is fantastic!

Look. I understand that things change but have some class in making the change. The first bit of life your child is experiencing is REJECTION from it's creator! Feel guilty? You should. My only serious advice is clean up this mess. Do things right. Don't hate your life and those in your care until they are comfortable with the change. If this is a case of I was starved (I don't see how) but if it is then stay starved until this is decided or else risk having another B A B Y to contend with.

Thats pretty harsh. Fact is I was not the first in that marriage to be unfaithful. My question was really should I put myself first in this way and will I ever be able to live with it. The children concerned are now 19 and 3. Both see me very regularly and I do everything I can for them in every way. I just dont live with them. I live alone to keep the peace. But that cant go on forever. In a perfect world these things would not happen. But unless YOU find yourself in a position, you have no idea what you would do. However, I did ask for a response on a public forum and you gave it, so fair enough.

[smackie9]

See this is the problem with posters like you....you leave out crucial information. Once you are insulted by the answers you get, you throw out there new information to bash back. Well it does put you in a different light but I still do not sympathize regardless of her infidelity.....two wrongs don't make a right. What I see is a man that let his wife down and probably wasn't there for her to face issues or provide emotional support to solve issues in the marriage. That's when things go sour. So she sought out what your friend was willing to provide what was lacking from you and yes it's not necessarily just about I agree. Now I'm sure finding out and dealing with her affair was very painful for you. Knowing that, I see that your affair, in turn, was an escape from her wrong doing and maybe revenge on her to feel your pain.

You can't seem to just step up and deal with whatever issues you had in your marriage, to either ended it or tried to fix it, but instead you swept it under the rug and escaped from your problems by having an affair. It's very weak dude, like totally. It's been like over two years now and you still haven't been able to "deal" with it. WTF. What the hell are you afraid of? Your wife cannot deny you visitation. That's what the courts are for. As for your GF, even if you get a divorce, the bu ll sh it will never end no matter what. She will complain about anything to do with your wife.

As for the now toddler, staying in a loveless miserable marriage will have a very negative affect on that child that may last for years to come. If you can show this child has a dad that is happy, living a stable existence having left the marriage, he would benefit from it greatly in the long run.

The answer is clear. Get a divorce, settle your rights for the child through the courts. Once you get everything in order, find yourself a GF that will accept the fact that you still have to keep a relationship with your ex wife, and spend time with your child. T find someone that will support you not torment you.

[Rich]

Your on a path to destruction (suicide watch?) and that's not good.

Let's look at this logically.

If you're lost on the road somewhere you don'tkeep driving, do you? No, you stop, get your bearing, ask for help if you can't figure it out by yourself and then get back on the road.

Right now you're on a bad path and you need to STOP continuing forwarsd before you crash. It's time to get your bearings and to get professional help.

First things first, you should have never left your first wife for someone else as that shows that your views on committment and promise to be faithful are non-existant. And if they're non-existant with your first wife then chances are that they'll be non-existant with your GF.

In life you're always going to meet someone prettier, nicer, smarter, has more and everything else then what you feel about your current partner. Will you always then leave your current partner for the next "better" person that you meet? You need to ask yourself if that's the type of man that you are, or who you want to be. Hopefully the answer is no.

I'm not for just staying in a bad marraige as I'm divorced myself. But a marraige should either work out or not work out on it's own merits, not because another person came into the picture. Like I said, there will always be another person in the picture, so that can't be a deciding factor to leave.

It sounds like you never got to the bottom of why your marraige to your wife didn't work out or why you were unhappy with it and looked for someone else. What wasn't working in your marraige?

Did you and your wife ever discuss the issues betweem you two? Did you not both even try to correct those issues? Maybe there's guilt because because you know that it wasn't given a fair shake.

Something keeps bringing you back to your wife. We all get married because we're in love with that person. Seems like there's love still there.

Here's my advice. Since you're caught between a rock and a hard place, I suggest getting rid of the hard place (your GF). That get's half of the pressure off of your back.

Then I suggest really getting into the issues that you and your wife had in your marraige. Sit down and have an open, frank and honest discussion about what expectation that you both had about the marraige as you went into it and where you both feel that you went off course. Make a list but don't be accusatory and blame each other. That time has past.

Let me digress, before doing anything, you and you wife need to ask each other if you still love each other and even want to investigate trying to salvage the marraige. If it's no, then move on with a clean concious. If it's yes, then have that as the basis.

Analyze the list of issues and see how workable and fixable they are. Then move forward to repair. There's nothing wrong with saying that, " we both f*cked it up the first time around and here's how we did it, so let's go back to the beginning with thuis knowledge in hand and try again". Go back and start again.

From my perspective you owe your wife and kids first before your GF. Of course your GF will be pissed, but oh well she played with fire and got burned. She could have very easily said to you that I will not get involved with a married man and if and when you become single becuase your marraige has failed, then give me a call. That I will not be the other woman and the cuase of your marraige ending.

She opted to not go that route and took a chance. Her chance didn't work out. Of course there will be angry words and threats, but oh well they're jsut words. Once that she's out of the picture then half your stress will be gone and maybe you can think a bit straighter.

Remember this, that there are twice as many women on this planet as men and if things don't work out with your wife, then you'll meet another woman to fall in love with. So don't feel pressure to keep your GF on the backburner in case your attempt with reconciliation with your wife doesn't work. Totally cut her out.

As mentioned, you're heading down the path to self destruction and you need to stop and get yourself together. Take a step back and think about everything. Ask yourself what direction do you really want to be heading in (wife or GF), then develop a course of action to get you there.

Grow a pair of balls and take action one way or another as you can't please everyone. Remeber this, that if you don't know where you're going, then no one can help get you there.

Kinda like planning a vacation in that if you have no destination in mind, then how can you make plans to get there.

What's your destination? Only you have that anwser.

You fell in love with your wife for a reason but over time looked outside of the marraige to fill the voids that were present in your marraige. Identify the voids that were in your marraige and work with your wife to fill those voids if you can.

Communicate, communicate, communicate.

[Creek Side]

Man... I still don't want to talk to you but my respectable peers are and therefore I will show some humility towards you. Both Smackie and Rich have placed a great deal of their hearts onto your table, giving straight forward useable guidance. Look you are charting a legacy in life and from your "It’s not my fault" position; you are sounding pretty unresponsive to personal responsibility. Everyone reaches a point in life when they celebrate that life is NOT about them but about whom they are fortunate enough to connect with. You are a very fortunate man. What you do with your good fortune is going to stare you in the face for the rest of your days. Sorry! When tiny lives are involved they are the primary focus... their wellbeing is been given to you to hold, to shape, to love. Do the right thing... Not the emotionally driven self centered what am I getting out of this thing. Its hard. That is why so many people are unhappy, confused and scared. You know what needs to be done. You know that tough decisions are painful. You will get through it as long as you do it with love and not selfishness. Let us know what you decide.

[BeAuTiFuL 773H]

Teaboy,

I do not think these people are correct in anything they are saying. I have never cheated, never been in your position, and would definately not make the same mistakes as you. However, I have been in a relationship that was unfulfilling because our desire to please the other person caused us to sacrifice who we are sufficiently so that we sought to fulfill our needs through other people. I have never laid with another man while I am committed, but just about every woman in this forum would be a liar if they said they never used a man for compliments. Or a self-esteem boost. Or as our own personal ego-stroking scapegoat. I have on many occasions been upset with a spouse and called a friend that I knew had feelings for me, just so he could feed my starved self-esteem for a while. I think you are in a very difficult place right now. Rather than leave one woman for the other or sacrifice your kids for yourself, why don't you take some time and define what you need? If you are very easily controlled, for a lack of a gentler term, you need to write down what you need from a woman and what you cannot live with. Then, find out what each woman offers you. Then, determine which, if either, can satisfy your needs. The only reason you are going back and forth and fighting with yourself, and waivered at all, is because your needs were not being met. This may sound cold with relativity to the women involved, but they are both asking for you to come back permanently. However, they are trying to bully you into it. You may need to consider the possibility that neither one will treat you the way you need to be treated.

To the women replying,
You seem to be a little too focused on Teaboy, and ignoring the real issue. Some men do just cheat and sleep around because it is what they want to do. However, these men show no remorse, see nothing wrong with their actions, and have no interest in changing. He is asking for our help with his life problems. He is seeking guidance on how to be happy. Lecturing and ridiculing is probably something he does very well on his own. Let's remember that a man who is truly happy will not wander, unless wandering is what makes him happy. I don't think that's the case here.

[smackie9]

Ridiculing? All I did was make suggestions what went wrong, how he got where he is, and trying to give him courage to make the changes to be happy. He's been teetering on the fence for two years, being in two unhealthy relationships. He's looking for a push off the fence.

[Creek Side]

Dear BeAuTiFuL 773H

Well... Since you yourself have confessed to using others feeling to re-affirm your self-esteem and to assist with being in a less than fulfilling relationship, I.e.,: "I have on many occasions been upset with a spouses and called a friend that I knew had feelings for me, just so he could feed my starved self-esteem for a while." Than I’ll offer you some concrete advice received here...

"I think you are in a very difficult place right now. Rather than leave your man for the other man who has feelings for you, why don't you take some time and define what you need and muster up the courage to obtain it? If you are very easily controlled, for a lack of a gentler term, you need to write down what you need from a man and what you cannot live with. Then, find out what each of the men in your life offers you. Then, determine which, if either, can satisfy your needs. The only reason you are going back and forth and fighting with yourself, and wavered at all, is because your needs are not being met."

In life, in order to make it work their needs to be ethics and values take priority over emotionally driven response to complex occurrences. But when those occurrences involve innocent co-dependent infants and bright eyed developing children... well their well-being is a driving priority. Your intentions and advice is admirable but teeters on a self confession of what is not working in your own life. Please bare with me here... and resist retreating into a defensive mode. We all are subject to bouts of self doubt and hiccups, but when giving guidance most offer objective views. Your encouraging the use of writing down thoughts... listing what Teaboy (the name itself is revealing) needs is a good start if he is close to knowing what he wants which is the question. He doesn't know what he wants so sitting down making a wish list is pre-mature at this point. My take is to point out the hard realities of this dynamics involved and the lives being affected by the vacillation that is taking place. I strongly suggest that if you disagree with the most seasoned of advocates here that you take a more tactful way to express it. Stay in tough.

[eadee]

Dear

i think u don't wana leave ur wife and gf. so u should marry ur gf too so their status becomes equal. u can stay with one wife for few days and few days with other. both will be happy and it will be ur responsibility to do justice between ur wives.

u have make one promise to both of them that u will not find any other gf what ever the reason.

[Creek Side]

I like eadee's advice... Double trouble. You deserve it!